[Sticky] The feed-back thread - still going strong into YEAR 11

Hmm I have a question... What music do you all listen to ?
From reading some of your songs I sometimes get a certain vibe, and wanna see if the vibe has anything to do with the stuff you listen to most of the time.

In my case, mostly classic rock and 60's/70's pop/rock & soul.

Good question, because I can actually tell who most of my SSG songs were influenced by - I can tell who I was listening to at the time by what I've written! Listening to some of those songs, I can detect touches of (deep breath....) Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Elvis, Everly Brothers, Mott The Hoople, Status Quo, Lou Reed, Hendrix, Allman Brothers....

I try not to make those influences too obvious, but sometimes it's pretty easy to spot - especially the Dylan-influenced songs. There's more than a couple of those......!

:D :D :D

Vic

I'm pretty much all over the place. I love the Blues in all it's forms
B.B.King is a big influence but I'll take Muddy,Robert Johnson,Billie Holiday
Stevie Ray and Jimmy Vaughan,Papa Chubby,Ernie Williams,Peter Green,
anybody past or present.

As far as songwriters go John Prine is a major influence and lately I've
been exploring Steve Earl and Townes Van Zandt. Then again I go all
over again John Lennon, Warren Zevon, Hank Williams Sr,Woody and
Arlo Guthrie,David Hodge, Vic Lewis, Kathy Reichert,. I have a lot of
Guitarnoise Jams and SSG stuff on my MP3.

Then there's all that stuff Vic mentioned. Lets see if I can come up with
a few he missed. Buddy Holly,Carlos Santana,Credence Clearwater Revival,
Led Zeppelin,Eric Clapton,J.J.Cale,Motown...

So that's a lot of it but I'm always listening for something to excite me.

I'm not too keen on Disco,Rap (Hip Hop, Urban or whatever they call it these days)
or Disney Tween Pop but I've found songs in those genres that I'll give a second listen.

I try to keep an open mind even if I don't always succeed.

:note1: :note1: :note1:

John

Lets see if I can come up with
a few he missed. Buddy Holly,Carlos Santana,Credence Clearwater Revival,
Led Zeppelin,Eric Clapton,J.J.Cale,Motown...

I din't actually miss any of them, John - they all fit pretty neatly into my listening categories. Although....I can't think of a song I've written that was actually influenced by any of those guys....maybe one, "Shelter," from about four years ago - that's kind of half Led Zep (When The Levee Breaks) and half CCR - maybe someday I'll be a decent enough guitarist to be able to play what's in my head.

:D :D :D

Vic

I din't actually miss any of them, John - they all fit pretty neatly into my listening categories.

Sorry about that Vic. I was just trying to come up with a few more names.

We both know there are many many more on that list.

And as for what I hear when listening to your stuff is Dylan(that's always pretty obvious)
and The Kinks.

:note1: :note1: :note1:

John

Hmm I have a question... What music do you all listen to ?
There is definitely a lot I have listened to in the past and have enjoyed....but if I had to put my mouth where my money is meaning what I have actually purchased recently, the list is shorter. So what I have bought in the last year:

Coldplay
Great Northern
Six Pence None the Richer
Imogen Heap
Derek Webb
WOW 2009

...In general, I think I am gravitating more towards indie folk, but I still enjoy variety :wink:

AHA! I knew you liked folk, I kinda got that from your lyrics xD

GUYS check out my song in the other forum that is not the SUnday Songwriters club, I like it alot, but it doesnt have much feedback.. thanks ^^

Just thought I'd share a little something with you all from week 45......which was inspired by Keith Waterhouse. I mentioned the AAAA (Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe) in the thread....how ironic, then, that in the next issue of the Daily Mirror (where KW started his career, and had a column for many years) in the sports section was the following little gem....."Lennon* let's feet do talking".....

Sigh - was that rumbling noise the sound of an old Leodensian** turning in his grave?

* - Aaron Lennon, English footballer.
** - Leodensian - a native or resident of Leeds, where KW was born. As heard in the lyrics to the Kaiser Chiefs song "I Predict A Riot."

:D :D :D

Vic

The English language is a confusing code with all kinds of contradictions, exceptions, inconsistencies and gaping holes in logic.
I feel sorry for anyone learning it as a second language.
I've been at it for over 50 years and I still struggle with it.
Perhaps another symbol for contractions should have been invented so it would not be confused with possessive use of the apostrophe.

lol Spanish is even harder xD.

English flows easier for me, not that it doesnt have alot of contradictions, its just spanish has more contradictions X_X, its crazy down here! xD.

I confused about what to do with choruses this week. I did verses for almost everyones titles, only missed 4 because of time, and now there are plenty of good choruses and verses running around. But it is hard for me to determine what to do.
If I write choruses for a verse that someone else has written choruses to am I confusing matters? It is hard for me to figure
out who has had verses written for their titles and who has had choruses written for their verses. I think I'll just sit out on the choruses and see what goes on next week.

I didn't do that much this week either . . . only added the two choruses to one song. :(
I'm still trying to get the hang of what a chorus is about.
So far, I've learned it should reflect the theme or moral of the song and sometimes include the title . . .
and, of course, whenever possible, it's something that the crowd can sing along to . . .
while swinging their beer mug back and forth.

I didn't do that much this week either . . . only added the two choruses to one song. :(
I'm still trying to get the hang of what a chorus is about.
So far, I've learned it should reflect the theme or moral of the song and sometimes include the title . . .
and, of course, whenever possible, it's something that the crowd can sing along to . . .
while swinging their beer mug back and forth.

Nice one Ken - I couldn't have explained it better if I tried! Thanks.....

As for me this week....stop, go, start, stop, get bogged down....hardly had a minute to spare. Never had a chance to contribute....hopefully, I'll be able to chip in for week 49.

:D :D :D

Vic

Well SSG Year 8 is off and running and with Vic's permission I thought we could
do some brainstorming on where we've been where we're going and just general
suggestions for lessons and such.

Vic and I have already discussed "Guest Lecturers" which was something David
mentioned Year 6.

So what would you like to see genre,subject,particular chord progressions,
more multipart assignments, or just a free for all.

Vic has assured me he is open to suggestions so don't be shy.

:note1: :note1: :note1:

John

Oh dear, I really messed up the Week 3 assignment - but with the help of a couple of PM's from Jamestoffee and Celt, I think it's almost to the point of being reasonably understandable by now. Thanks guys!

I REALLY need to learn more guitar theory!

:D :D :D

Vic

This is experimental....and I haven't tried it....I'm on the brink of giving it a go. There was a web site I came across. It's really about how to write books, but I changed some of the wording to see if it could apply to songs....and I'm not trying to sell you on the program. I am just trying to cross-pollinate creative juices from one craft of writing to another. This was original link http://writeabooknow.com/

How to Write a Song

First, decide whether your song will be fiction or non-fiction, story, or how to.

For your work of fiction, you'll need a plot. Only a fool will try to develop a plot from scratch. There are already so many plots out there that are ready to be used. Get hold of a bestseller in your genre that's about eight years old. That's the plot you're going to use. Change the names, change the places, and change the scenes. If it's a futuristic science fiction, make it a period romance. If it's a western, make it contemporary.

Remember, Gene Roddenberry sold Star Trek to the Studio by describing it as "Wagon Train among the stars."
If you change everything except the plot, you're not plagiarizing anything and there's absolutely no problem with copyright.

Read the old bestseller, divide the plot into chunks, and you've got your new song.

Rewrite that song as quickly as you can, but don't look at the old bestseller any more. You already know what the story is. (And the market has already proven it's a bestseller!)

Read the non-fiction songs on your topic out there already. There will be line topics common to all of them. These are the same themes you should put in your song.

Additional lines should include answers to the questions you're always hearing from clients or others involved in the topic.
And make sure you include at least one line about your own very special and unique 'technology' for getting the benefits the song topic offers.

In both cases (fiction and non fiction) write as quickly as you can and complete your song immediately. The more diligently you work on your song before you start writing, the less work you'll find involved in the actual writing of your song.

And there are no points awarded for the outstanding song you're going to write in the future.
Even the mediocre song you've written has far more value than the blockbuster that has yet to find the page.

That brings me to editing your song.
Two points are essential for you here:

First, the faster you write, the more you will write the way you talk and that will give you a very sell-able song.

Next, you can't perfect something until it exists. Don't edit a single word until you've got the song finished. If you find yourself going back over a line you've just written, STOP and return to the writing of your song. No one is going to be reading this work until you're satisfied and so your time is much better spent just completing the song, rather than spending the next year perfecting the first line.

Want to know how to edit your song? No problem. You edit your song by following the cardinal rule about editing... Omit Needless Words.

If you have the time, go though each line and look at each word. Can it be eliminated, consolidated, or minimized? Can the line be made shorter yet still maintain impact?

Take any line at all. Remove the needless words, and you've increased the power of that writing at least 100%

Here's the final element about your song you should know: It will never be perfect. There will always be flaws, pieces of story or information you should have included, suggestions by editors and agents that seem obvious when they're made.

Don't get bent out of shape about it. Make the corrections if you can make them. Live with the wonderful published song (and remain silent) if it's already printed.

But whatever you do, start now, start today. Make it happen. There can truly be nothing more exciting or rewarding that getting that song written.

LESSON 1 Write Fast
In order to write well, you should write the way you talk. If you write the way you talk, your writing will always be very understandable to the reader.

There will be no convoluted sentences. No $25 words, where a 50-cent offering will suffice. There will be no misunderstanding. No misinterpretation. When you talk to friends, you don't 'put on airs' in your speech. You speak to be understood, and (with the exception of politicians) you usually are.

And just about every writing instructor, agent, editor, publisher and reader will tell you that if you write the way you talk, your manuscript will be infinitely more readable, publishable and sell-able.

You've already mastered the art of talking. You've been doing it ever since you were a few months old, and you've been honing, practicing and developing your talking skills just about every day of your life!

You have mastered the details, you have mastered the techniques, and you have mastered the process and the challenges. With this mastery comes proficiency. And proficiency will always be accompanied by speed.

Does that last paragraph sound familiar? I used it to describe a person who has mastered a skill previously.
You talk relatively quickly because you know how to talk. You know what you want to say and how you want to say it.
Those who know how to do something well, usually do it quickly. You know how to talk, so you talk quickly (by that I mean you don't labour over every word). If you want to write well, write the way you talk…

The logic is inescapable. If you want to write well, write quickly. If you write quickly, you will always write the way you talk (you won't have time to develop the awkward sentence).

If you want to write well… write fast!
If you want to be prolific, write quickly.
If you want to write well, write quickly.
The faster you write, the better you write!

LESSON 2 You only need 3 words to write a song
Your mind needs only three words to create a complete story, a complete scene, a complete picture of imaginary events, or real-life information. I don't know why this is, but it's the case everywhere I go in the world. Three words are all that's needed.

Now we're going to do an exercise. I hate telling you this because any time you tell someone they're going to do an exercise their first reaction is to bolt for the door. But hold this thought in mind. This exercise is the very foundation of speedwriting. If you'll just give me five minutes... that's all, just five minutes, your writing will change forever.

Skeptics in my seminars have been bowled over by this exercise. They've been astonished at their own results. People who were hoping the technique actually works wouldn't stop talking about the results they were getting... and students who doubted they could actually write, were amazed at what was happening right before their eyes. One person in Detroit even described the process as 'magical'

You're going to write for five minutes. That's all, just five minutes. And you're going to send me the results so I can see them! (Remember, I'm obsessed with your success. You don't participate, you get zapped from the class!) No one has ever been hospitalized from this exercise, so don't just bypass it. If you do, you'll be bypassing the opportunity of a life time. As I tell everyone in my seminars around the world, treat this exercise as seriously as you possibly can. If you're cavalier, thinking the exercise not worthy of all your efforts, you'll get that kind of result. If you're serious, I truly envy what's about to happen to you.

You're going to write for five minutes. You must write as fast as you can for five minutes. If you stop the writing process at any time during those five minutes, I will find out where you live, visit you, and punish you. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding!) But you must write for the full five minutes.

Next rule, you must write as quickly as you can. Remember, the faster you write, the better you will write. I know you don't believe that right now... I have three words of advice for you... Get Over It!! Write as quickly as you possibly can. Don't worry about what you'll be writing. I'll explain that to you in a few moments.

Next rule: don't think! If you think, you'll just screw things up! Now, I don't mean you literally shut down your brain. Nobody can do that (I hope). What I mean is don't second guess your writing. Whatever comes into your brain, that's what you put down on paper. Anytime someone has difficulty with this exercise, it's because they were thinking too much. They were editing their writing as the writing was taking place! Don't do it.

You're trying to write a story. A coherent, understandable story. I don't want you to simply list a string of random thoughts. This is a story. It's not a biography. You're not in it!! Don't use the word "I" And it's not a speech, where you get to tell me what you think about something. It's a story!! Yes, you may want to write non-fiction, but for the next five minutes, you're a story writer. Not a biography, not a speech, not news, not weather... a made-up, fictional, story, please!

Now the real power. I'm going to give you three words. That's all, just three words. You must start your writing with one of the three words. The other two must appear in the first paragraph. So you can't start your writing with 'It...' 'A...' 'The...' 'Once upon a time...' nothing like that. You must start your writing with one of the three words I give you, and the other two must appear in the first paragraph.

Got your watch or clock ready? The three words are about to appear. Take the words and go to your word processing software... or your pad and pen. Start writing immediately. Remember, the faster you write, the better your writing will be.

Here are the words. Click on this link. http://watchout4snakes.com/CreativityTools/RandomWord/RandomWord.aspx
If you want, you can add an 'ly' or 's' or 'ed' or some other ending to the word. But you must start your first sentence with that variation. Don't start with 'The...' No cheating now! I'll give you an example. If the three words were witch, chair, and stapler, my first sentence might be: Witches gathered around the table for the meeting. Or, 'Chairs slid across the ice as the children began their Sunday morning skating lesson.' Or, 'Staplers had to be used instead of paper clips, according to the Italian dictator.' And in each case, the other two words would be used in the first paragraph. The words change regularly.

Just as a teaser, I want to let you in on something. Did you write 2/3 of a page in those five minutes? Just about everyone does. If not the first time, then certainly the second time.

Feedback?